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Coralie said in November 4th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

We are neither quiver full, nor homeschoolers, and are not big fans of Vision forum. That being said, when a fellow brother in Christ falls to sin, that should always, without exception, make us sad. I grieve with the Phillips family, and I grieve the state of the Church that any among us would celebrate the sin of another.

Come Lord Jesus!

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 4th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Coralie.

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Doug Hibbard said in November 5th, 2013 at 9:55 am

I’ll say about what I said over on Facebook–

We homeschool, but haven’t really gotten into the resources or other materials through Vision Forum. So, I have no beef with Doug Phillips nor a personal support for him.

I know this: when people stumble, it can trip up others. Given a few more months, it will be valuable to others in public ministry to dissect warning signs to help them avoid the same trap (because we all risk falling into traps). As it stands right now, though, the better course of action is pray for him, his family, and those impacted by this event.

I know there are others who are not fans of the message he has presented over the years at Vision Forum. However, how does his resignation change that? If he had never stumbled, would those critics have started to agree with him? Not likely. At this point, piling on how you never liked him anyway serves no purpose of grace.

I told you so is rarely helpful–the only thing less helpful is those who would say it doesn’t matter, because it does.

But how do we respond?

We pray for him, his wife, his children, and the fallout. Same way we pray for others. We admit that fallible people can, in fact, fall, and we respond with the grace we would want. That includes, in the coming months/years, determining whether it’s good or bad to put that individual back in front. But that’s not for today.

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 5th, 2013 at 10:00 am

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Doug. I agree that the key response we can have right now is lots of prayer.

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Steve Fahs said in November 5th, 2013 at 11:47 am

Thanks for writing about this Shaun, I too have been pondering and praying. Sadly, I have personally known more than a few of my Pastor friends who have “fallen”, I have also observed many others, some of whom I respect deeply, bring great damage to themselves, their families and their ministries through various sins.
As I have reflected on these things I am beginning to understand that God looks at our lives differently that we do. We tend to measure our lives (and ministries) by our impact, by the influence that God gives us. Yet God always looks at our lives through our hearts. He will not allow our “success” to stand in the way of his purpose. His great concern is for our hearts, and so he will crush men and bring great failure to there lives that he might burn away the chaff. Sometimes he does these things to reveal an impostor. But his focus is always on the heart.
So I have been praying for Doug Philips, for God is speaking to him through these events. But is also speaking to me, and so my primary focus is a sober reflection on the condition of my own heart. I want the gravity of these events, to remind me that my sin is serious, and his grace is rich. May God grant that my heart would be tender toward both of these truths.

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 5th, 2013 at 11:55 am

Steve,

As we are praying for the Phillips family, it’s also a good reminder to be sober and realistic about the blind spots in our own lives.

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Jimmy Reagan said in November 5th, 2013 at 7:34 pm

It is well done as possible, but it will be more fully judged by how he follows what he said. May the Lord help him, his family, and those crushed by it.

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Melissa Meyers said in November 5th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

First, I think as Christian, we often jump to defending someone and to forgiveness before allowing ourselves to work through the stages of grief and loss. I am not really familiar with Doug Phillips, but I am familiar with the philosophy of quiverful, and have friends that support and live out these ideals. This being said, if my child does something wrong, I don’t pat him on the back and say, “It’s okay.” We want him to grow and realize why it was wrong and the it his wrong action can also hurt other people. What’s wrong with saying, “Wow, Doug what you did was really awful!” I am sure his wife would enjoy hearing this. “Your actions let down your whole family, God, and a community of supporters who are embarrassed by the incident.” Wheee…honesty. “If he understands this…he is in a place called brokenness, which God always can work through and heal. If we try to cover over things too quickly, healing can not take place. Then things like stress need to be examined. Maybe running the ministry and homeschooling and having a household was too much. Perhaps, there were warning signs. As always, it is a good chance to examine our own lives and stressors, and how we are dealing with them. All these steps should ultimately lead to forgiveness and reconciliation.

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Bob McManus said in November 6th, 2013 at 9:46 am

I’m glad that I have read more gracious responses than the condemning sort. Like Steve said, it is good to take time to reflect on ourselves and our sins.
His aren’t worse than mine, just different. I think Christ made that pretty clear. Man’s hierarchy of sin is just to make us feel better that, “At least MY sin isn’t as bad as Doug’s.”
It may be good to pray against that thinking in the church too.
Thanks Shaun!

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 6th, 2013 at 10:46 am

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jimmy. I always appreciate your perspective.

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 6th, 2013 at 10:47 am

Thanks for weighing in Melissa. It’s good to get a female perspective on this.

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 6th, 2013 at 10:48 am

So true Bob. This is a good call examine our own lives and fall to our knees in prayer.

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Mona said in November 6th, 2013 at 11:54 pm

I am a homeschooling parent not necessarily “quiverful” family, although we do have 6 children. I have been married for 28 years and despite our attempts our marriage is not well– and we have survived an extramarital affair and drug abuse– I thought we could get through anything– that being said, we must remember that Satan is crafty and we are in a spiritual battle and he is the great deceiver. Doug Philips was making an impact on families, his lectures are excellent– Satan knew he needed to be stopped. I am so,so sad for our loss, but I will be praying for this family– may the grace of Jesus be given by his family and all believers in Jesus Christ. We have suffered a great loss and Doug and his family will suffer many consequences. But ALL things work together for good to those who love the Lord– May God restore him and may the Lord make something beautiful to further HIS kingdom out of this big mess.

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Jeffrey Lee Robinson said in November 7th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

Shaun,

To us that do not subscribe to your faith, and have, in fact, pointed out its axioms, dogmatic mentalities and resulting practices this comes as no surprise at all.

To avoid being seen as starkly putting things in black & white: Given how you express yourself, I would have no cause to believe you would be inclined towards the same behavior, and I am not attempting to lump Christians into one morally deficient group… though, it would seem, Christians on the whole try their best to prove me wrong on that over various spectrums.

What’s really grevious about this isn’t that he cheated on his wife, in whatever capacity. It’s that he did so while so vehemently speaking out against gays, feminism, etc.

The hypocrisy is not just vile – it’s common.

Tell me the last time you saw an atheist caught in such a hypocritical scandal. Far more rarely – wonder why that is?

What happened to the salt of the Earth?

And yet, here you are, ready to support his return, not at all questioning his character or motives – or that he may be a complete fraud. Just blaming Satan and eager to have your leader back in place, as any helpless sheep would.

= pathetic.

Even your apostle Paul would question things more closely on such matters – and while I disagree with Paul on 99% of what he writes, he has one things you current Christians simply don’t – a sense of honour and courage.

You guys keep on procreating to “witness.” It will be pleasant to see the surprise when you realize your children may be smarter, more compassionate, and more courageous than you could ever hope to be.

After all, you wish your wives to be as submissive as possible. Because cowardly men cannot deal with strong and independent women with a voice and goals of their own.

Keep it up, you are only doing the secular movement more good and more press by supporting such ethically bankrupt characters, reflecting your own lack of insight and fortitude.

Sincerely,

Jeffrey Lee Robinson

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 10th, 2013 at 11:03 pm

Jeffrey,

Based on your lengthy comment, I can see that we’re approaching this situation from different perspectives. While I am deeply saddened by what has happened, I am hopeful that God will bring about a great healing and restoration in the Phillips family and I’m praying that what emerges will be even better and stronger.

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 10th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Mona.

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Shaun Tabatt said in November 11th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

I was thankful that Kevin Swanson finally weighed in on this topic in a recent Generations Radio broadcast. You can listen to it here:

https://generationswithvision.com/broadcast/scandal-among-christians/

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Myron Horst said in November 24th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

What has happened with Doug Phillips’ immorality is a pattern that is happening with other conservative leaders as well. The amount of sexual abuse that is occurring among conservative groups is significant indicator of the failure of the conservative ideology. I have written an article titled Doug Phillips, Vision Forum and the Bigger Picture. http://www.biblicalresearchreports.com/doug-phillips-vision-forum.php

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The "Semi-Paid" Bill S. said in December 13th, 2013 at 11:19 am

Please everyone, let’s remember that while we uphold DP and his family before God’s throne, we also must do the same for the young woman who apparently in many circles has not been mentioned as needing prayer for healing/restoration/forgiveness. Both parties ultimately chose volitionally to sin, but DP allegedly instigated the activity and seduced the young woman. Both of them must genuinely repent to the extent that they are each guilty (there are many that assert that his repentance statement is not sincere) and seek forgiveness from those whom they have sinned against, but the reports indicate that she was initially drawn in by him and thus his culpability could be seen as more severe.

This whole ordeal is tragic. The Lord’s name has been shamed (cf. 2 Sam. 12 in which Nathan confronts David for his manifold violations of God’s law in his sin with Bathsheba). This travesty has made numerous folks think less highly of the patriarchy method and its equivalents/parallels (I already have serious reservations and problems with that movement myself based I believe on a good understanding of scripture, but I shan’t discuss them at present here ). That DP had to resign and Vision Forum (both parts of this organization at large) is closing down are realistically attributable to his commission of various sins as made known publicly and a serious loss of trust in him and others involved because of it.

May the Lord show mercy and grant restoration and healing for DP his family along with the young woman and her family as needed as well as all others devastated by this tragedy in addition to true repentance and forgiveness involving the guilty parties.

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S. Levine said in December 17th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

I agree Shaun. I’m pained that the resources of VF to the church are being shut down. The resources are still good. The sin of the man does not disqualify the message if that message is based on the word of God. I’m finding that all of the detractors and blog-mockers are showing their cards deeply rooted in the feminism of our modern humanism. They are rubbing their hands in delight because they hated Mr. Phillips anti-feministic biblical position. If anyother leader had fallen who did not lecture against feminism then they would not be acting this way and they really wouldn’t care. The common theme I’m hearing is that they are glad he has fallen because now it discredits his stand agaisnt feminism. But no, it does not discredit the stand agaisnt feminism because this is the stand of the word of God in the Bible. We don’t opposed feminism because DP taught us to. We opposed feminism long before we ever heard of DP or VF. We opposed feminism because we understand the Bible to be the word of God and not the out-dated teaching of men.

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